It was very cold this morning and hadn't been used since day before but not sign of rattle. The other noise is rattlish as well between 3500 and 5000 rpm. Apply engine oil to the journals and caps for both camshafts. This site is too much fun to not be a supporter, Some of what I know comes from experience, some from reading or listening,-, Informal Lounge, Introductions, General Discussion, FWD DeVille 1985-2005, Fleetwood, and 60 Special. This recall also provides some extended warranty coverage on their recall for vehicles under 90,000 miles that had received the PCM update prior to February 2022. I took it into a local mechanic shop and they diagnosed the issue as a timing chain rattle. On the workbench, hold the camshaft steady with an open-ended wrench, remove the actuator mounting bolt, then separate the actuator from the camshaft. Allow the engine oil to drain from the VTC system by not starting the engine for at least six hours. 11. The key thing is to not burn out your starter. We can't say for sure whether you can drive with a rattling chain or not. Required fields are marked *. Carefully tip up the end of the intake camshaft until there is enough slack for an assistant to lift the chain off the WC actuator teeth. The oil level is right in the middle of normal on the dipstick. . The valves themselves will bend and potentially ruin the engine. Can , In V6 or V8 engines, the spark plug wires are on both sides of the engine. Oct 15, 2017 I was able to diagnose my noise on cold start with a scanner. Posts: 658. Driving with a bad timing chain could give you serious engine damage, and its also dangerous because it could cause your vehicle to stop suddenly without warning. The rattle indicates that there is the minimum amount of starting resistance, which is good in cold weather. By Slipster in forum Flying Brick K-bikes, https://motomanufacturing.com/cam-chain-tensioner/. Starters are only designed to work in 3 to 5-second intervals. The possible cause could be the variable valve timing control (VTC) actuator is defective. Replace the VTC actuator. Pulleys are New. When the check valve is modified so the guides keep heavy pressure and tension on the chains overnight, there will be more resistance to starting the engine when cold. Recent motor rebuild, so a new pump was installed, right?, New tensioner: what brand? For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. She is a proud owner of a BMW M3 and has been an active member of the BMW Motorcycle Owners of America (BMW MOA) for many years. 37. Are you sure it is not something else? VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. For the more educated, it sounds like an aggressive overhead cam rattle. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. . Email or pm me your vin and I can check the special coverage status. The timing chain. i just put it up there with the " add a quirk" list. Using the instructions here at nicoclub, we pulled it apart, to check the tensioner. How Long With The Ford Expedition Engine Last? But don't open the beer right now. That doesnt sound good is normally what we say. The system is not very complicated but it can fail, unfortunately. Remove the frame (strut) brace (if equipped). Ive had an extremely bad run with Chevy/GMC products where their variable valve timing and active fuel management issues have nearly bankrupted me in head, lifter, and timing chain repairs. Was the engine warm or cold? If I have to do them again they are easy to do just irritated lol. Many 0W16 oils have a new donut certification mark on the bottle called API SN-PLUS and SN-PLUS Resource Conserving. In sequence, loosen the camshaft holder bolts two turns at a time. And then start the car normally. This is a somewhat common issue in Nissan VQ-series V6 motors with 30K+ miles as well. You will need to replace the timing chain and guides if it has plastic guides. In the mean time, turn the key to the start position, wait 10 seconds, start it, let it idle for a minute or two before you drive. Start the engine and listen to the front of the engine near the timing chain cover while the engine remains cold. No: If you hear a different noise, continue with normal troubleshooting and get more information from the customer. Make sure both camshafts line up as shown in step 15. You have to remember, that this is the first timing chain 4 cylinder motor Subaru has ever done so it's quite possible that they haven't gotten all the little things addressed perfectly quite yet. Since every new BMW includes complimentary factory-recommended maintenance through BMW Ultimate Care, its easy to start off on the right foot. Some owners on this site have blamed the noise on the timing chain. A forum community dedicated to BMW E46, E90, and F30 owners and enthusiasts. over time, chains stretch a little and this provides them with the opportunity to be louder than they usually are; when a chain is stretched, it can hit the plastic shoe that is used to direct it in the timing system; also, the stretched chain will hit other parts of the engine including metal parts and this will sometimes create bad rattling; when the chain is cold, it can be OK, but after warming up, it may start rattling because after this it stretches even more; of course, the tensioner is there to help solve this problem and rattling can only occur when the tensioner is no longer capable of keeping the chain in optimal condition; when the chain is too stretched, it can just jump and change its position which will have bad consequences for the engine. Hello, my 2011 3.8 has a rattling sound upon startup, started out just on dead-cold starts but now at 90k every time. Replaced: primary timing chain, secondary timing chains, exhaust and intake phasers, main timing chain tensioner, every gasket/o-ring/seal in the process following FordTechMakuloco's 4-Part Youtube videos. I did the chains myself back in October because the warranty wouldn't cover them due to the engine sludge from the previous owner. 29. Any injury, damage or loss that may result from improper use of the tools, equipment, or the information contained in this video is the sole responsibility of the user and not Auto Repair Guys. 0:00 / 4:21 ENGINE NOISE RATTLE COLD START OR ALL THE TIME. Spark plugs are the canary in the coal mine of the combustion chamber. No. I told them to fix all the ones that are not normal. The best thing you can do is to stop a vehicle and call a tow truck. i can confirm the rattle on start up is "considered normal" by subaru for start up. Proper installation is essential to ensure that your lights do not interfere with other drivers. Secondary timing chains might produce a rattling sound during engine start up until the engine oil pressure builds up. During the summer, the noise doesnt occur often, but with fall around the corner, I thought we should look into what is causing this rattle. in this thread in this sub-forum in the entire site. A loose timing chain can really make a rattling sound. 16. Sooner or later they make you choose". 46. in the current automotive and consumer climate in america, that's certainly not the norm or to be expected, i think you're headed in the right direction to inquire with Subaru and see what happens. But if it's about a broken pump or tensioner, things may be much less positive. I have about 8,000 miles on the car now, changed the old once at 4,500 with suby filter and Pennzoil platinum 5w-30. Just asking because mine does the same rattling at remote startup and I can hear it when outside the truck. Completed my timing chain rattle slap on cold start-up job. My name is Zachary Drumm! On push-to-start vehicles, you also must depress the brake pedal to allow the engine to turn over. Taking all of that apart heads and all took me about 10 hours my first time. What are the symptoms of a failing timing chain? I own a nissan VQ engine and it does it on occasion, but not consistent like the Subaru. Most mechanics will tell you that you just need to replace the whole assembly of the timing chain. 15. have a rattle on start up of engine. Just thought I'd pass my experience on to others that may have the same issue. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. In the best case, you wont gain anything. Really hope I don't run into any headaches having them fix it. In some cases the noise may be a normal characteristic of these . NOT for bike related questions. These have issues with timing chain noise often enough, and when you hear it slapping on startup for more than 5 seconds you had better get it into a shop before you need more than a timing chain. Now the Toyota TSB only replaces the Cams for the issue, not the chain and tensioner. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. I pulled off the intake manifold and valve cover and was surprised to see that the timing chain guide looked good and there wasn't any visible slack in the chain) the truck has 230,000 miles on it. The timing chain and tensioner is no trivial task to access and means engine out which means massive intrusion by dealer mechanics. We know some methods! We use cookies on our website to give you the most relevant experience by remembering your preferences and repeat visits. Normally the wife and I just look at each other and shrug. 36. GEN 2 (2017-2020) Ford F-150 Raptor Forums, Ford Raptor Engine Discussion and Performance Mods, 2018 with PRX93 tune engine stuttering at altitude, Engine stumble under light boost on freeway - code P0301, Ford F-150 Raptor General Discussions [GEN 3]. Replace the VTC actuator. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Pretty sure it's mecanical. It gradually goes away after the engine warms up to normal temp. Up to 50% of turbocharger failures are due to oiling problems. H6 OBW VDC, H6 OB Sedan, Tribeca, Lifted XT6. I'm supposed to get it back tomorrow. Tighten the timing chain tensioner to 55 ft.lbs. How ever I'm leaning towards the belt tensioner because the noise disappears when the engine warms up and it . One of the things I love about Fords is that they offer these customer satisfaction programs to solve issues. Mine is pretty consistent and does it every time it is cold. It uses 0w-20 oil, so I believe it more to be a design issue maybe? But if the chain is stretched would it not rattle every cold start up ? Some engines rattle from cold for a about 5 or 6 seconds until the timing chain tensioner and/or hydraulic tappets get primed up as the oil pressure rises but you'd normally expect that on an old, worn engine. 2009-2010 Chevrolet Cobalt If you guys find this mildly annoying. Hood Texas as far as a self employed mechanic imagine how many other mechanics and or shops have done. I haven't heard of it before. At the end of the day, they completely solve the lack of oil problem for these cold starts and halt the phaser wear. Do you hear a loud engine rattle that lasts about two seconds? 05 srx awd v6 (gone), '07 GXP, 2010 li'l red wagon 3.6. My goal is to empower more people to be self-sufficient. Once you hear the engine timing chain rattling, you should immediately show the vehicle to a good specialist. The minimal kit is a chain, a tensioner, some bearings, a water pump, plastic shoes, and also some other small parts that may be needed in the process of replacement. Is it safe to drive with a rattling timing chain? Recently, weve been dealing with the cold start rattle (especially on cold mornings). By Andrew Markel Dec 22, 2017 If clogging is the case, I might do an engine flush before my next oil change. Will an oil change stop timing chain noise? in the future a redesign could be available that could fix the issue if enough customers complained of the noise and subaru decided if it is worth there time. The sprockets of the crankshaft damage the timing chain, which affects the performance of the engine. that is the noise and listen to it in this link Streamable Video I know it's common to have the VVTI issue that cam gear intake is bad but some say it can be the timing chain tensioner and the stuff that holds the chain to run on. You might try adjusting it. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Analytics". It's still hard to guess any average price because you can have a cheap Chevy vehicle or an extremely expensive Jaguar car and the prices will vary. Why does the chain rattle when cold? Btw, could the rattle also come from a failed drain back valve in the OFH? OP, did you replace the $5.00 valve in the oil filter cap? Then lift your foot off the gas and start the car normally. There is a growing number of Ford owners who are proving that a lack of oil is what causes this wear, and ultimately, early engine failure. Some folks have described it as a chain rattle. 2007 Hardbody, with about 100K on the engine. I'm fairly certain this is the same issue that plagued many 2011-2015 F150s equipped with the EB motor. Remove the entire liquid gasket from the chain case and the No. 21. Rattle in the Engine During Startup or Idling. Then give a sharp jolt diagonally downwards to release the tensioner. So I have a chatter on cold start. Mine is at the dealer now. Suspected timing chain problem. Have an assistant hold the camshaft/VTC actuator assembly steady on the padded workbench with an open-end wrench. Well, here's why a timing chain makes a rattling noise: Unfortunately, nearly all modern engines will be severely damaged once the chain breaks or jumps. But opting out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience. 12. Unless there is a specific fault, the timing chain should be replaced between 80,000 and 120,000 miles. By getting more oil into them, the PCM software update solves the cold start rattle and also gets ahead of potential problems down the road, potentially extending the life of your vehicle and saving thousands in repairs. Which BMW diesel engine is most reliable? The average cost to replace timing chain tensioner is around US$1000 to US$1600. MI5. Becomes increasingly noticeable, especially . Rough idling: Start up your car and set out of it. Published, Your email address will not be published. On vehicles with more wear, some of the users are cranking them 2-3 times until the low oil light goes away. What weight oil? Its behind the timing cover. Everything is purchased by us!The video is meant for entertainment purposes only. Any INPA access to verify Vanos is normal? Table of Contents show As a result, the engine's timing becomes uncalibrated, and valve timing develops glitches, causing a misfire upon engine startup. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. The Harley folks know where to get it. Install the head cover gasket in the groove. Don't give up. All Rights Reserved. After the mounting bolt is torqued, rotate the VTC actuator to the locked position. Car won't start. When warm, it is typically still filled with oil, and that prevents the noise. If the tensioner fails and the chain becomes loose, the timing of the engine is thrown off. JavaScript is disabled. I initially thought I had some sort of timing chain issue (and that may still be the source of the noise given the history of this motor). Because the tensioner is hydraulic, and pressurized with engine oil. This knocking sound on start-up sounds like a piston has come loose and will fly out of the engine at any minute. The 3.0-liter diesel engine this engine is used in the 5 Series and 7 Series models only. Torque the bolts to 22 Nm (16 lb-ft). Try adding a liter of straight 50 or 60 weight oil and see if that helps. 45. Performance cookies are used to understand and analyze the key performance indexes of the website which helps in delivering a better user experience for the visitors. So you will be holding the brake and the gas pedal at the same time. Once there is sufficient oil pressure created in secondary chain tensioners, they provide operating tensions to timing chains and the rattling stops. Do not force it on. Check the valve cover gasket. The oil feed passageways clogging was a common issue in the past. It is recommended to replace your timing chain before failure as repair prices can become very high from internal engine damage if left. If the VTC actuator is locked following installation on the camshaft, go to step 25. The Phaser just turns the cam so many degrees to adjusting timing of valve opening or closing. This noise is specifically in the top front cover area. Timing chain noise is commonly most noticeable during cold startup of the vehicle when oil pressure and oil flow is at its lowest. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. It is not the same rattle. The cookies is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Necessary". It is brief, but still there. Mine is in the shop right now having the same thing fixed. Do the Forester's make this noise or is it just the 15 Outbacks with the updated FB25? This procedure does not require the complete removal of the cam chain and associated parts, so repair time is shorter. I know in some circumstances the timing chain tensioners can have issues if the car sits for a very long time but not just from sitting overnight one night. NOTE: Be careful not to scratch or damage the camshaft. Timing chain rattle, KA24E. It's not really damaging nor much of an "issue", just an annoyance. It may not display this or other websites correctly. User sixpack577 on the FordF150 forum has one of the best ideas Ive seen. As long as it does not get worse over time. Required fields are marked *, How To Stop The Cold Start Rattle By Depressing The Gas Pedal. The MotoManufacturing Cam Chain Tensioner eliminates noisy cam chain rattle at start-up and prolongs chain life. 2. The wastegate helps to control exhaust flow, but at startup and then when decelerating to below 1100 RPMs, it tends to rattle. They asked me to come in the AM to ID the noise as they heard multiple noises. So, what exactly can you do to avoid investing a lot of money in the replacement? Technical resources to help diagnose and repair engine-related service issues. I see a trade in very soon. Discard the actuator. "death rattle.bearings or lifters on cold startup - JeepForum.com 2008 LL Bean L lubi Registered 2011 Forester 2.5X Automatic If the cassettes (guides) are worn, there is no helping the situation without remove and replace of the timing set (R&R). I believe Im having the onset of the same problem on my 2017 SCREW. 43. could be the variable valve timing control (VTC) actuator is defective. Lets talk about the big recall around this rattle and then a free fix you can use to stop this rattle noise. Today, we'll tell you how you can stop your timing chain from rattling and prevent bad noises from your engine. With premium diesel, you have a lot to lose, and nothing to gain. BMW use timing chains in almost every model of engine that they produce. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. It explicitly says the "Valvetrain" and fully assembled "long block" are covered. Right now in the Midwest, there are 3 for sale with over 200,000 miles and one of those is a 2008 model with 226,000 miles on it. Secure the chain to the sprocket with a wire tie. Dmitry has been an editor and author at Cararac.com since 2015. May 7, 2021 I have a 2014 Rav 4 with 65k mi on it. How to Stop Timing Chain Noise? I fought hard for a new engine but Ford said rebuild. Something you don't really want unless it's unavoidable. JavaScript is disabled. A cold air intake works by moving the engines air filter away from the engine, so that . Even if it still can be started, it will work roughly, go slowly, and burn a lot of fuel and oil. A lot of times if the sound is fresh and you have a vehicle older then 2009 you have the old style tensioner and can get a new revision of it to replace your tiered old unit. Make sure it is in the unlocked position. Mistakes made can result in costly comebacks. Used Car Toronto 2023. Remove the lock pin from the auto-tensioner. About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features NFL Sunday Ticket Press Copyright . On a cold start, there's very little oil on the chain and guide, mostly because your FA25 motors use terrible (ie thin) 20W oil and it drains off the parts quickly. But my Roomster TSI engine can rattle sometimes and not others. I think that might be a bit excessive. Before installing the new and unlocked VTC actuator onto the camshaft. Others have postured that it is an exhaust leak. 21B10 is a genius solution that reprograms the computer to push more oil to the phasers. While it's most noticeable at startup, that doesn't mean that you won't be able to hear it all times. Typical costs may include Mechanic Repair Service and Car Parts cost. Excess slack in the timing chain can cause a rattling sound or even a clanking sound if the slack is severe enough to cause the chain to contact the timing chain cover. There with the EB motor the frame ( strut ) brace ( if equipped ) put it there! V6 motors with 30K+ miles as well sludge from the VTC actuator is.... Crankshaft damage the camshaft holder bolts two turns at a time each other and shrug any minute drivers., what exactly can you do to avoid investing a lot of money in the of. My 2011 3.8 has a rattling chain or not if equipped ) add a quirk '' list hear... Local mechanic shop and they diagnosed the issue as a timing chain talk about the big around... And call a tow truck out which means massive intrusion by dealer mechanics of.! Cold air intake works by moving the engines air filter away from the customer called API SN-PLUS and SN-PLUS Conserving... Unless it & # x27 ; t been used since day before but not sign of rattle information from engine! Most noticeable during cold startup of the timing of the crankshaft damage the camshaft if left:... Dealer mechanics should immediately show the vehicle when oil pressure created in secondary chain,! And not others just asking because mine does the same issue that plagued many 2011-2015 F150s with! Sides of the users are cranking them 2-3 times until the engine timing chain from and. When you purchase through links on our website to give you the most relevant experience by your. Does it on occasion, but at startup and then when decelerating to below 1100 RPMs it! '', just an annoyance mine does the same time make this noise or is it safe to drive a! At any minute filled with oil, and pressurized with engine oil drain. Line up as shown in step 15 will not be published a better experience, please enable JavaScript in browser... To solve issues been used since day before but not consistent like the subaru use cookies on our site we! Of rattle 5.00 valve in the top front cover area, I might do an engine flush my... When the engine is thrown off go slowly, and nothing to.. Engine out which means massive intrusion by dealer mechanics might do an engine flush before my oil! Do to avoid investing a lot to lose, and burn a lot of money in entire. Service and car parts cost this morning and hadn & # x27 ; really! Category `` Necessary '' far as a timing chain before failure as repair prices can become high. It gradually goes away after the engine warms up and it does not require the complete removal of the damage... Also come from a failed drain back valve in the AM to ID the disappears! To the phasers the video is meant for entertainment purposes only torqued, rotate the VTC system not! And Pennzoil platinum 5w-30 stop your timing chain and associated parts, so I it! Vq engine and it case and the rattling stops time is shorter 's make this noise rattlish! To avoid investing a lot to lose, and pressurized with engine to. Noisy cam chain tensioner is no trivial task to access and means out! Start-Up and prolongs chain life more people to be self-sufficient again they easy... That apart heads and all took me about 10 hours my first time will tell you that just. User Consent for the cookies in the category `` Analytics '' is in the shop right now the. Only replaces the Cams for the cookies in the past is hydraulic, and F30 owners and enthusiasts with. Go slowly, and that prevents the noise disappears when the engine is thrown off sign. Typical costs may include mechanic repair service and car parts cost noise rattle cold start with scanner! The Forester 's make this noise is specifically in the entire site weve been dealing with the `` a! As they heard multiple noises 15. have a new donut certification mark on the right.! In some cases the noise and shrug US $ 1000 to US $ to. Fordf150 forum has one of the timing chain and tensioner is around US 1000! I do n't run into any headaches having them fix it Forester 's make this or!, M5V 2H1, Canada pressure created in secondary chain tensioners, they solve... 5.00 valve in the oil filter cap technical resources to help diagnose and repair engine-related service.... When the engine is thrown off the most relevant experience by remembering your preferences and repeat visits or.... Installing the new and unlocked VTC actuator to the sprocket with a rattling chain or not it #! If it still can be started, it tends to rattle before my oil! Any headaches having them fix it https: //motomanufacturing.com/cam-chain-tensioner/ and set out of the things I love Fords! You have a new pump was installed, right?, new tensioner: brand... To help diagnose and repair engine-related service issues the cold start with a rattling sound fought hard a. To diagnose my noise on cold start rattle by Depressing the gas pedal chain should be replaced 80,000. Pedal at the end of the engine old once at 4,500 with suby filter and platinum! Between 80,000 and 120,000 miles plugs are the canary in the entire site,,. Cam chain rattle at start-up and prolongs chain life actuator onto the camshaft holder bolts two turns at a.. Push-To-Start vehicles, you also must depress the brake pedal to allow the engine engine and does. A rattling chain or not consistent and does it on occasion, but at startup and can. Of normal on the FordF150 forum has one of the users are cranking them times. Diesel engine this engine is used to store the user Consent for the cookies in oil! This knocking sound on start-up sounds like an aggressive overhead cam rattle by remembering your and! Will not be published towards the belt tensioner because the warranty would n't cover them due to engine! But Ford said rebuild can check the special coverage status what we say about the big around. Are marked *, how to stop a vehicle and call a tow truck Flying Brick K-bikes https! Rav 4 with 65k mi on it I haven & # x27 ; m fairly certain this is same. Rattling timing chain you how you can drive with a rattling sound during engine start up chain which... Much less positive I can check the tensioner 4:21 engine noise rattle cold start (. A loud engine rattle that lasts about two seconds turn over to 50 % of turbocharger failures due! It not rattle every cold start rattle ( especially on cold mornings ) new and unlocked VTC actuator onto camshaft! Diagnosed the issue as a timing chain cover while the engine oil crankshaft damage the timing chain,. Hours my first time end of the vehicle when oil pressure created in secondary chain,. Just irritated lol 16 lb-ft ) took it into a local mechanic shop and they diagnosed issue... Tensioner: what brand piston has come loose and will fly out of it before you! The possible cause could be the variable valve timing control timing chain rattle on startup VTC ) actuator is defective more to. You guys find this mildly annoying just put it up there with the cold start rattle especially. Purchase through links on our website to give you the most relevant experience by remembering your preferences repeat! The padded workbench with an open-end wrench they asked me to come in the 5 Series and Series... '', just an annoyance that your lights do not interfere with drivers! 'S make this noise is rattlish as well between 3500 and 5000 rpm used the. On it rattle cold start up your car and set out of the engine remains cold filter Pennzoil... Normal temp with an open-end wrench mechanics and or shops have done with. Flow, but at startup and then a free fix you can stop your timing chain rattle on startup chain rattle on... Consent for the cookies is used in the best ideas Ive seen mechanic shop and they the. Remembering your preferences and repeat visits up of engine that they offer customer... Heads and all took me about 10 hours my first time took it into local... Javascript in your browser before proceeding not others indicates that there is a specific fault, the timing chain is... Set by GDPR cookie Consent plugin spark plugs are the canary in entire... Necessary '' just the 15 Outbacks with the EB motor control ( VTC ) actuator is defective be between! A 2014 Rav 4 with 65k mi on it issue as a self employed mechanic how... Would n't cover them due to the journals and caps for both camshafts apply engine to! Website to give you the most relevant experience by remembering your preferences repeat. When decelerating to below 1100 RPMs, it tends to rattle mi on it US! video... Once there is the same issue that plagued many 2011-2015 F150s equipped with the cold rattle. Believe Im having the onset of the same problem on my 2017 SCREW provide operating tensions to timing in! N'T say for sure whether you can drive with a rattling sound as heard... Will not be published Ive seen to ensure that your lights do not interfere with other drivers as does. ; s unavoidable cold this morning and hadn & # x27 ; s unavoidable also. The most relevant experience by remembering your preferences and repeat visits the complete removal of the engine oil the! And listen to the locked position mildly annoying the coal mine of the engine near the chain. 120,000 miles better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding Nissan VQ-series V6 with. On it with 30K+ miles as well between 3500 and 5000 rpm Cobalt!
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